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Beren Gunsolus's avatar

That Copernican Revolution metaphor is quite helpful, seems to really "fit". Would be interested in hearing more of your thoughts on classical theism!

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Reepicheep's avatar

Wotta great movie.

Here's Philomena on the Golden Hind.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p0634q44

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Alastair Roberts's avatar

Classic! We are big Cunk fans.

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pduggan_creative's avatar

By juxtaposing gender and the idea of copernican revolution: its like gender has undergone one. There were different tools for men and women for their tasks but the tasks weren't so tied to the natural substrate of human sex differences that they can't be ratioed away like needless epicycles when the revolution of modern universal rationalism and machines doing the work emerge.

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Reepicheep's avatar

"This renegotiation is largely downstream of transformed material factors—changes in transport and infrastructure, in communication, and production. In many ways, the result has been a radical thinning out of former stable communities of play."

Isn't it Marx who claims that material conditions drive culture? I don't see the Bible's ethics claiming that. Rather, in the Bible, it's the other way round, culture drives material conditions.

"Where people move around a lot and ways of life are rapidly changing due to new technologies, values, media, and other such factors, or there is more social conflict, the power of custom will swiftly diminish or collapse, its place taken either by formal law or autonomous choice."

For example, Abraham moving around a lot and therefore having to struggle to meekly negotiate life with strangers all the time rather than just rely on their common customs?

Or Jacob doing the same?

Or Moses?

Or the exilic peoples doing the same, after enjoying a little period of leaning upon custom?

Or the new covenant diaspora doing the same? Never on solid ground, always having to maneuver delicately around people who were potentially hostile and didn't share customs?

;-)

"With the advent of the Industrial Revolution, radical urbanization, the rise of the automobile, and the emergence of a mass society of common spectacle, the old ludic communities have been lost."

Maybe the old ones have, but haven't you been out and about recently though? There are plenty of folks playing happily with each other, even in miscenegated, industrial, and dynamic societies.

Are you sure this isn't just your fusty antiquarian tendency driving your interpretation?

Nothing wrong with fusty antiquarianism, in its place.

"Happiness"

Carl Sandburg

I asked the professors who teach the meaning of life to tell me what is happiness.

And I went to famous executives who boss the work of thousands of men.

They all shook their heads and gave me a smile as though I was trying to fool with them

And then one Sunday afternoon I wandered out along the Desplaines river

And I saw a crowd of Hungarians under the trees with their women and children and a keg of beer and an accordion.

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Alastair Roberts's avatar

Marx is one of many people who rightly emphasizes the importance of material factors. Scripture does too in many ways. For instance, there is a lot of attention in books such as Deuteronomy to the difference between what it means to trust God in the wilderness and to do so when settled in the land, where an annual agriculture cycle and accumulated wealth takes the place of daily provision of manna that cannot be accumulated. Likewise, the condition of being a stranger in a land not one’s own is often commented upon in Scripture. Being exiles, sojourners, nomads, or scattered came with great dangers of loss of identity, assimilation into the paganism of surrounding peoples, syncretism, or decay of common life. These conditions are often discussed in the text.

Material factors make a huge difference. Being settled in the land was of immense importance. It made a difference where in the land tribes were situated too: there were particular dangers of alienation on the far side of the Jordan. Likewise, the scattering of the tribe of Levi was significant. Much of Exodus, Leviticus, and Numbers are devoted to setting up and ordering material conditions such as a central sanctuary, a system of sacrifice, a festal calendar, a weekly Sabbath, pilgrim feasts, symbolic rituals, etc.

There are clearly still lots of happy people playing with each other. I’m a member of several such groups. However, this isn’t what I have in mind by ludic communities. The ‘ludic communities’ I’m referring to are enduring and well-defined intergenerational communities where the playfulness of common custom can be a or the dominant organizing social force for a people’s shared life over decades or centuries.

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Reepicheep's avatar

Don't we all long for settledness and playfulness? I certainly do.

But something very fascinating materializes when we study the apparent settledness of Israel through the lens of economics. God had promised them incredible abundance on the condition of obedience. (long lives; avoiding miscarriages in man and beast, etc.)

This promise was given to a nation who had already experienced the most rapid sustained rate of population growth in the recorded history of man, from 70 families and their households in Joseph's day (Ex. 1:5) to as many as 2.5 million people, in about 215 years. (Egypt was terrified of what was happening!)

The rate of population growth was over 3% per annum, At that rate, even if there had been no increase in the rate of population growth, the earth would have been filled with about 13 billion Hebrews -- about three times the present estimated world population -- in well under three centuries. (Obviously they were very unfaithful, so they didn’t enjoy the full terms of the blessing and this didn’t happen).

Enter the Jubilee year; the granting of land back to its original owners every 49th year. What was God doing here?

Obedient and godly families would grow. The more ethically faithful the family, the tinier the "equal" portions of the inheritance from the Jubilee. This actually served as a disincentive for obedient families to remain in Israel; the inheritances would shrink with the Jubilee! In fact, counterintuitively, the Jubilee distribution would only be long-term attractive to inheriting sons who were laboring under a disobedient curse.

Therefore, they could have no hope in the land -- either in their portion of the land, or in the land of Canaan itself. They had to look outward, toward the world at large. The geographical wineskins of Israel had to be broken. Covenantally faithful Israelites could not remain farmers forever, tied to the soil. They would have to become traders, entrepreneurs, skilled craftsmen, masters of foreign languages, and still remain faithful to the law of God at all times and in all places.

I think that these actuarial and demographic facts hedge against the Christian’s over fond hope of long term settledness and custom as something we can lean upon too lightly. I do share with you, however, this fond hope in a growing and postmillennial sense. In other words, it may come to us in history before the resurrection, but I believe we have a tendency to lean upon counterfeit versions of custom and comfort, rather than enduring ones build on biblical obedience.

It is something we should be working together on as a church. There remain too many societies around the world which can’t enjoy much like this yet due to the rampant effects of state-worship and other idolatries which have hindered true gospel custom and comfort.

Always enjoy your writing. Sail on.

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Alastair Roberts's avatar

The Amish would seem to be a straightforward counterexample here: a population with 3-4% growth per annum, strong ties to locality, fairly consistent forms of life, highly regulated by custom, and deep suspicion of the disruptions brought about of modern technology.

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Reepicheep's avatar

The Amish shun anyone who leaves them. Is that a ludic community?

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Alastair Roberts's avatar

Very much so! Shunning people who reject custom is a fairly common way that ludic communities operate.

I think you might be missing the way I'm using the term 'ludic'. The point is about the game-like character of custom, not that everyone is happy. Games can sometimes be unpleasant, cruel, or unhappy experiences for some involved in them.

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Reepicheep's avatar

Oh, I see. I probably did misinterpret you.

I'll have to confess here that if a society enjoys settled custom, and ludic ways, at the expense of joy and harmony, then they are to be pitied.

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