As an avid fan of the Theopolis podcast—especially James Jordan’s Life of Jacob series—I appreciate hearing your take on Jacob, I’ve always wondered you, Peter Leithart, and others make of some of Jordan’s more controversial interpretations.
It would be cool to see a Theopolis podcast on “James Jordan’s Hot Takes” where the podcast crew shares their thoughts on some of his interpretations. For example: did Elijah actually die? Did the apostles really stay in the Israel area before AD 70? Is Jacob the perfect man? Can the canon be rearranged in books of seven resembling the days of creation? I’m sure there are more!
The things which, to me, blunt the notion of Jacob's trials as God's discipline for his deception are "Christ learned obedience through what he suffered" and "be shrewd as serpents". To me, Jacob's trials are character formation rather than payback. I think the deception was obedient.
The issue with the trials of Jacob is the way that they mirror his deception. Having the older and younger daughter mixed up so that you don't recognize them in the darkness of the wedding bed is a little on the nose!
Never thought of that! The parallels are incredible.
Still, the mirroring may not be corrective, but rather reflective. I'm thinking of Christ who didn't deserve correction, but got it on our behalf anyway.
I may be leaning too heavily upon typology, but that's how I see it, currently.
Thank you for laying out multiple interpretations with good for/against discussion. When reading the deception of Isaac I was conscious of the Gen 3 themes but saw Jacob in the Eve role bringing delicious food to the Adam character Jacob and deceived by the serpent-like Rebekah - Genesis 27:12-13 “Perhaps my father will feel me, and I shall seem to be mocking him and bring a curse upon myself and not a blessing.” His mother said to him, “Let your curse be on me, my son; only obey my voice, and go, bring them to me.”
This seemed too similar to the “you will surely not die” promise of the serpent. There is also exile, animal skins and Jacob’s eyes being opened, seeing the betrayal included in the story. But like you say, these parallels don’t exactly match each episode and character.
Also comparing Esau and Jacob; I thought “a skillful hunter” was hinting Esau’s character to be like Nimrod (Gen 10:9) while Jacob dwelt in tents like Abraham.
The Nimrod connections are ones I've noticed before. Nimrod as hunter implies a predatory kind of king or emperor and Esau's seeming aptitude for such a part. If you were judging naturally, such a man would seem well-suited to be the founder of a new nation. Indeed, Esau does found his own nation in such a manner, as we see in Genesis 36.
The other potential Genesis 3 connections you mention are definitely worth reflecting upon too.
Also, I think it's significant that Esau's curse from Isaac is very similar to what the scapegoat cast out into the wilderness on Yom Kippur would experience: "Behold, away from the fatness of the earth shall your dwelling be, and away from the dew of heaven on high."
It seems that "dew of heaven" could have connections to the manna which fell like dew from heaven. And it wouldn't be a stretch to connect the "fatness of the earth" with the general area around the camp of Israel, insofar as God's dwelling and blessing reside there and the people have been put in almost a bubble of bounty while in the wilderness.
I think the term תָּם as "unblemished" would also fit nicely with the idea of Jacob as the whole burnt offering which ascends to God on Yom Kippur. Like Job, he is ready to be purified and burned up and proven faithful. So, in other words, the term might connote "preparedness" rather than "morally blameless" (although I'm not sure you can have one without the other)
As an avid fan of the Theopolis podcast—especially James Jordan’s Life of Jacob series—I appreciate hearing your take on Jacob, I’ve always wondered you, Peter Leithart, and others make of some of Jordan’s more controversial interpretations.
It would be cool to see a Theopolis podcast on “James Jordan’s Hot Takes” where the podcast crew shares their thoughts on some of his interpretations. For example: did Elijah actually die? Did the apostles really stay in the Israel area before AD 70? Is Jacob the perfect man? Can the canon be rearranged in books of seven resembling the days of creation? I’m sure there are more!
You need to send some of these in for our next Q&A episode!
Nothing like a day at the BM. Or two, or three.
The things which, to me, blunt the notion of Jacob's trials as God's discipline for his deception are "Christ learned obedience through what he suffered" and "be shrewd as serpents". To me, Jacob's trials are character formation rather than payback. I think the deception was obedient.
The issue with the trials of Jacob is the way that they mirror his deception. Having the older and younger daughter mixed up so that you don't recognize them in the darkness of the wedding bed is a little on the nose!
Never thought of that! The parallels are incredible.
Still, the mirroring may not be corrective, but rather reflective. I'm thinking of Christ who didn't deserve correction, but got it on our behalf anyway.
I may be leaning too heavily upon typology, but that's how I see it, currently.
Thank you for laying out multiple interpretations with good for/against discussion. When reading the deception of Isaac I was conscious of the Gen 3 themes but saw Jacob in the Eve role bringing delicious food to the Adam character Jacob and deceived by the serpent-like Rebekah - Genesis 27:12-13 “Perhaps my father will feel me, and I shall seem to be mocking him and bring a curse upon myself and not a blessing.” His mother said to him, “Let your curse be on me, my son; only obey my voice, and go, bring them to me.”
This seemed too similar to the “you will surely not die” promise of the serpent. There is also exile, animal skins and Jacob’s eyes being opened, seeing the betrayal included in the story. But like you say, these parallels don’t exactly match each episode and character.
Also comparing Esau and Jacob; I thought “a skillful hunter” was hinting Esau’s character to be like Nimrod (Gen 10:9) while Jacob dwelt in tents like Abraham.
The Nimrod connections are ones I've noticed before. Nimrod as hunter implies a predatory kind of king or emperor and Esau's seeming aptitude for such a part. If you were judging naturally, such a man would seem well-suited to be the founder of a new nation. Indeed, Esau does found his own nation in such a manner, as we see in Genesis 36.
The other potential Genesis 3 connections you mention are definitely worth reflecting upon too.
Also, I think it's significant that Esau's curse from Isaac is very similar to what the scapegoat cast out into the wilderness on Yom Kippur would experience: "Behold, away from the fatness of the earth shall your dwelling be, and away from the dew of heaven on high."
It seems that "dew of heaven" could have connections to the manna which fell like dew from heaven. And it wouldn't be a stretch to connect the "fatness of the earth" with the general area around the camp of Israel, insofar as God's dwelling and blessing reside there and the people have been put in almost a bubble of bounty while in the wilderness.
I think the term תָּם as "unblemished" would also fit nicely with the idea of Jacob as the whole burnt offering which ascends to God on Yom Kippur. Like Job, he is ready to be purified and burned up and proven faithful. So, in other words, the term might connote "preparedness" rather than "morally blameless" (although I'm not sure you can have one without the other)
Some great thoughts here!
Absalom is said to be without blemish in 2 Samuel 14:25 and he seems to function as a sacrifice.